October 17th, 2007 – Book Discussion and Choir (Being led by the nose)In our second meeting for the book discussion we had a good exchange and thought-provoking conversation about The Secret Message of Jesus. We talked about Part 2.
Greg pointed out the number of times McLaren used “what if” to preface one of his proposals. It is a way to bypass disagreement and makes it difficult to know what he is truly proposing. We also talked about the way McLaren wrote about parables and how he used the label “parable” somewhat interchangeably with “story” or “fiction”. Most of the group felt a parable was not simply a story or fiction and that the so-called "parable" of the newspaper reporter was simply a story.
Mary asked about the title and whether we now knew a secret about the message of Jesus. Her point was that we probably already knew what was in the book. The closest answer the group gave was in the conversation McLaren had at the Chinese restaurant when he was asked, “What is the gospel about?” and instead of his answer about justification by grace through faith he was told it was “The kingdom of God is at hand”. We still expressed some misgivings about the title that we talked about last week.
Greg pointed out the number of times McLaren used “what if” to preface one of his proposals. It is a way to bypass disagreement and makes it difficult to know what he is truly proposing. We also talked about the way McLaren wrote about parables and how he used the label “parable” somewhat interchangeably with “story” or “fiction”. Most of the group felt a parable was not simply a story or fiction and that the so-called "parable" of the newspaper reporter was simply a story.
Mary asked about the title and whether we now knew a secret about the message of Jesus. Her point was that we probably already knew what was in the book. The closest answer the group gave was in the conversation McLaren had at the Chinese restaurant when he was asked, “What is the gospel about?” and instead of his answer about justification by grace through faith he was told it was “The kingdom of God is at hand”. We still expressed some misgivings about the title that we talked about last week.
This sounds like we were cold on the book but that is not true. The book is encouraging, and challenging. There are many times you wish you were talking with McLaren to clarify what he is proposing. He talks about Jesus being deliberately provocative in the parables and what he preached. This book forces the reader to re-examine Jesus and doctrine and, I believe, the author hopes that through that re-examination the book inspires new action.
As in our last discussion the video series, How Lutherans Interpret the Bible, was referenced. It gives us common ground to talk about the ideas that are being presented in both the book and by the series.
Debi talked about how The Secret Message of Jesus affected her by relating one of her stories about El Salvador. Essentially she found not just a lack of anger towards people who are repressing them. The people she met there embraced those they might regard as enemies and she attributed it to a different understanding they have of Jesus and what he taught.
For her this was exemplified by Oscar Romero and the hope he gave with the Christian message. He stood up for those in poverty in El Salvador. As a result he was shot to death in 1980 while celebrating Mass after he gave a sermon in which he called on Salvadoran soldiers, as Christians, to obey God's higher order and to stop carrying out the government's repression and violations of basic human rights.
She talked about Romero's life and stand for justice being a message of hope. Those he stood up for took it to heart. She felt that same message reading this book and, obviously she is not alone. The hope is that we respond more to the untamed, revolutionary vision Jesus often seems to reveal with his parables of kingdom of God.
We decided three weeks from now we split our discussion of Part 3 into two Wednesday discussions and define two major topics, one to center on each of the two nights.
Singing in choir is pure joy right now. We familiarized ourselves with Creator praise songs and began to work on Agnus Dei. Sharilyn attended with the express purpose of singing Agnus Dei and we know she will not be the last to join for that reason.
The highlight of the evening for me was For The Beauty of the Earth, particularly Janice and Sara’s soprano opening. We will sing it this Sunday. We are still having difficulties with temp in the last section of the song. Kelly directed us through this when the mass choir sang at the Bishop’s installation but this time he is playing piano so he suggested we watch his nose for the direction.
As in our last discussion the video series, How Lutherans Interpret the Bible, was referenced. It gives us common ground to talk about the ideas that are being presented in both the book and by the series.
Debi talked about how The Secret Message of Jesus affected her by relating one of her stories about El Salvador. Essentially she found not just a lack of anger towards people who are repressing them. The people she met there embraced those they might regard as enemies and she attributed it to a different understanding they have of Jesus and what he taught.
For her this was exemplified by Oscar Romero and the hope he gave with the Christian message. He stood up for those in poverty in El Salvador. As a result he was shot to death in 1980 while celebrating Mass after he gave a sermon in which he called on Salvadoran soldiers, as Christians, to obey God's higher order and to stop carrying out the government's repression and violations of basic human rights.
She talked about Romero's life and stand for justice being a message of hope. Those he stood up for took it to heart. She felt that same message reading this book and, obviously she is not alone. The hope is that we respond more to the untamed, revolutionary vision Jesus often seems to reveal with his parables of kingdom of God.
We decided three weeks from now we split our discussion of Part 3 into two Wednesday discussions and define two major topics, one to center on each of the two nights.
Singing in choir is pure joy right now. We familiarized ourselves with Creator praise songs and began to work on Agnus Dei. Sharilyn attended with the express purpose of singing Agnus Dei and we know she will not be the last to join for that reason.
The highlight of the evening for me was For The Beauty of the Earth, particularly Janice and Sara’s soprano opening. We will sing it this Sunday. We are still having difficulties with temp in the last section of the song. Kelly directed us through this when the mass choir sang at the Bishop’s installation but this time he is playing piano so he suggested we watch his nose for the direction.
I'm sure Kelly is asking himself when he won't need to lead this choir by the nose.
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